Gordon W. Gullion &...
 
Notifications

Gordon W. Gullion & Bill Palmer on Grouse - Biologist that Understood Grouse  

Page 2 / 3
  RSS
Crazy Horse RVN
(@crazy-horse-rvn)
Estimable Member

Dave, one of the big reasons for the poor management (at least in the recent past) is the fact that Governor Ridge appointed one of his Turkey hunting buddies to the executive director position, whose background was a supermarket manager. Another executive director was a retired Army colonel whose expertise was as Army statistician.

 

Such appointments did absolutely nothing for our Game Lands and Game programs. Another thing that I'd like to see changed is how the PGC Board of Directors is chosen. Instead of appointments, I'd prefer to have them chosen by a hunter and trapper election, much like how NRA directors are chosen.

Tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions.

ReplyQuote
Posted : February 14, 2020 7:33 am
thornton
(@thornton)
Noble Member

It is indeed a shame when those put into a position of responsibility in government do not have the established skills or, especially, the desire to complete the equation in a fashion to help those needing most to benefit. 

A few years ago, a fella was set in place as a state forestry chief with the skills of an ecologist or some such. That political appointment was hardly conducive to delivering healthy forest systems and proved so. The just previous to the present chief of the same state was a graduate forester by training who understood the needs of a forest for the forest itself, critters second and humans third...at least to my eye.

Still, politics and obstruction in and out of the state was a hurdle. As they always are, be the hurdle-causers like the state-centered BFC, state Politics in general or are the selfish whims of a national group. The same humps and divots to cross exist in every state and make it difficult to complete tasks and reach honest and longed needed goals. Same on a wider scale for the National Forests or other issues. Party and Politics are well-rooted everywhere. The cycling sine wave of each appears to mean little. I reckon it is human nature to believe our own state's lot is always worst but....that is far from true. Which is most clear when one honestly looks at any issue without the burden of bias or without the effort-wasting of unreasonable expectations.

Clearly, that same honest look will do most to appreciably aid the ruffed grouse in meeting the differing struggles faced by the bird across it's range.

ReplyQuote
Posted : February 14, 2020 11:40 am
Further North
(@geoff-roznak)
Prominent Member
Posted by: @crazy-horse-rvn

If shortening the season or minimizing the bag limit would help the Grouse population, why not just eliminate the whole Grouse season for say,...1 or 2 years. Given the idea that limiting bag limits or shortening the season would improve numbers, than totally eliminating the season for a couple of years should multiply the numbers dramatically.

Our PA Game Commission has made so many mistakes in their Game Management programs (Example: Deer, Pheasants, Quail, etc) that I cannot bring myself to believe they have a handle on the Grouse problem.

 

That's a good question.

There's a risk of losing hunters if they find something else to do.  THat's about all I can think of.

 

"Some people stand tall as great leaders because they elevate all the people around them, some seek to stand tall by pushing all around them down."

ReplyQuote
Posted : February 14, 2020 3:56 pm
Further North
(@geoff-roznak)
Prominent Member
Posted by: @shuck-m

I agree - this info might be dated as Mr. Gullion passed (rip) in the early 90s, and I'd be curious as to an update from other biologists.

So Maine can now open the season on Spruce Grouse? No. There is no open season on spruce grouse in Maine - for good reason.

I'm now for closing the season on BU for at least a few years. Eat the lost license revenue, encourage furbearer hunting/trapping, assess the raptor population, give every hunter a chain saw. 

The observation about the information being out of date is important.  Science doesn't stop with publication and it is the duty of scientists to try to disprove things that have already been theorized.

"Some people stand tall as great leaders because they elevate all the people around them, some seek to stand tall by pushing all around them down."

ReplyQuote
Posted : February 14, 2020 4:01 pm
Further North
(@geoff-roznak)
Prominent Member
Posted by: @dave-buehner

IMO instituting game laws to only shoot flying would further eliminate any small effect hunting would have on the Grouse population.

Posted by: @dave-buehner

Along with new shooting Flying regulations to eliminate tree and ground swatting of Grouse. This would even further reduce the little effect hunting has on the Ruffed Grouse population. IMO shooting flying should be adopted by all the different states where Ruffed Grouse are hunted.

 

Interesting idea, but completely unenforceable.  It would just be another law on the books...

This post was modified 2 weeks ago by Further North

"Some people stand tall as great leaders because they elevate all the people around them, some seek to stand tall by pushing all around them down."

ReplyQuote
Posted : February 14, 2020 4:05 pm
Further North
(@geoff-roznak)
Prominent Member

Just curious: How many here are attending a Ruffed Grouse Society banquet?  How many are actively working for the organization on local committees, events, etc.?

 

"Some people stand tall as great leaders because they elevate all the people around them, some seek to stand tall by pushing all around them down."

ReplyQuote
Posted : February 14, 2020 4:18 pm
Dave B - L.C. Smith Man
(@dave-buehner)
Famed Member

Geoff,

   I usually attend the HQ Banquet, recovering from my open heart surgery I am not doing any field work with RGS/PGC at this time.  I do a lot of mentoring for the new Grouse hunters here in Pa, and some surrounding states also.  We use to have an entire table at the HQ Banquet, unfortunately a lot of the old timers in our Grouse Camp have passed away.

I do wish the RGS HQ banquet was back down in the David L Convention Center, instead of in the Holiday Inn, north of Pittsburgh, Pa, that is for sure.  Just not the same any more.

You are correct shooting flying would just be a another law, like the littering law, however the majority of Grouse hunters obey the game laws.  At this point it's legal to ground swat and tree shoot Grouse.  Instituting the law the vast majority of Grouse hunters would abide by it.  Grouse hunters tend to be very responsible traditional hunters.

 

Dave B - L.C. Smith Man

 

This post was modified 2 weeks ago 6 times by Dave B - L.C. Smith Man
ReplyQuote
Posted : February 14, 2020 6:39 pm
john mcg
(@settertude)
Estimable Member

The needs of the birds don’t change. Everything else does.

What do the birds need?

https://woodlandclearing.wordpress.com

ReplyQuote
Posted : February 14, 2020 6:53 pm
Dave B - L.C. Smith Man
(@dave-buehner)
Famed Member

john mcg,

 

    That was answered in both the Gullion and Palmer studies, proper forest management and raptor control.

Nothing has really changed as to what the Grouse need to survive.

Dave B - L.C. Smith Man

 

Properly managed forests like these in Potter County, Pa are desperately needed to increase our Grouse populations state wide and thru out the country.

[img] [/img]

 

This post was modified 2 weeks ago 4 times by Dave B - L.C. Smith Man
ReplyQuote
Posted : February 14, 2020 6:57 pm
Further North
(@geoff-roznak)
Prominent Member
Posted by: @dave-buehner

You are correct shooting flying would just be a another law, like the littering law, however the majority of Grouse hunters obey the game laws.  At this point it's legal to ground swat and tree shoot Grouse.  Instituting the law the vast majority of Grouse hunters would abide by it.  Grouse hunters tend to be very responsible traditional hunters.

I would bet not, but we will never know.

We tend to associate with people who are like us and assume everyone else is the same.  That is a grave error.

"Some people stand tall as great leaders because they elevate all the people around them, some seek to stand tall by pushing all around them down."

ReplyQuote
Posted : February 14, 2020 11:16 pm
Further North
(@geoff-roznak)
Prominent Member
Posted by: @dave-buehner

john mcg,

 

    That was answered in both the Gullion and Palmer studies, proper forest management and raptor control.

Nothing has really changed as to what the Grouse need to survive.

Dave B - L.C. Smith Man

 

Plenty has changed.  It's been decades...

 

This post was modified 2 weeks ago by Further North

"Some people stand tall as great leaders because they elevate all the people around them, some seek to stand tall by pushing all around them down."

ReplyQuote
Posted : February 14, 2020 11:17 pm
Further North
(@geoff-roznak)
Prominent Member
Posted by: @settertude

The needs of the birds don’t change. Everything else does.

What do the birds need?

You are exactly right.  I wish I were that concise.

There are too many who can't see that clearly, putting their own desires in front of what is best for the birds...and ultimately, what is best for everyone.

"Some people stand tall as great leaders because they elevate all the people around them, some seek to stand tall by pushing all around them down."

ReplyQuote
Posted : February 14, 2020 11:19 pm
Further North
(@geoff-roznak)
Prominent Member
Posted by: @dave-buehner

Geoff,

   I usually attend the HQ Banquet, recovering from my open heart surgery I am not doing any field work with RGS/PGC at this time.  I do a lot of mentoring for the new Grouse hunters here in Pa, and some surrounding states also.  We use to have an entire table at the HQ Banquet, unfortunately a lot of the old timers in our Grouse Camp have passed away.

I do wish the RGS HQ banquet was back down in the David L Convention Center, instead of in the Holiday Inn, north of Pittsburgh, Pa, that is for sure.  Just not the same any more.

You are correct shooting flying would just be a another law, like the littering law, however the majority of Grouse hunters obey the game laws.  At this point it's legal to ground swat and tree shoot Grouse.  Instituting the law the vast majority of Grouse hunters would abide by it.  Grouse hunters tend to be very responsible traditional hunters.

 

Dave B - L.C. Smith Man

 

I understand about your post surgery recuperation...what about before that? 

Were you hip deep, advocating for habitat?  Raising money to mow down old growth and re-seed so that it could return to successional forest?

Were you out helping clear stream side brush? 

Were you out there telling lakeside property owners that their perfect green lawns were destroying habit for miles...and decades...downstream? 

Do you actively advocate against golf courses?

Do you support removal of dams?

Were you helping your state buy private property and convert it to public land?

 

"Some people stand tall as great leaders because they elevate all the people around them, some seek to stand tall by pushing all around them down."

ReplyQuote
Posted : February 14, 2020 11:32 pm
Dave B - L.C. Smith Man
(@dave-buehner)
Famed Member

Geoff,

  Actually I was doing none of that, if it is any of your business.  I hope you were busy doing all of it yourself however.

Dave B - L.C. Smith Man

ReplyQuote
Posted : February 15, 2020 12:39 am
Crazy Horse RVN
(@crazy-horse-rvn)
Estimable Member
Posted by: @geoff-roznak
Posted by: @dave-buehner

Geoff,

   I usually attend the HQ Banquet, recovering from my open heart surgery I am not doing any field work with RGS/PGC at this time.  I do a lot of mentoring for the new Grouse hunters here in Pa, and some surrounding states also.  We use to have an entire table at the HQ Banquet, unfortunately a lot of the old timers in our Grouse Camp have passed away.

I do wish the RGS HQ banquet was back down in the David L Convention Center, instead of in the Holiday Inn, north of Pittsburgh, Pa, that is for sure.  Just not the same any more.

You are correct shooting flying would just be a another law, like the littering law, however the majority of Grouse hunters obey the game laws.  At this point it's legal to ground swat and tree shoot Grouse.  Instituting the law the vast majority of Grouse hunters would abide by it.  Grouse hunters tend to be very responsible traditional hunters.

 

Dave B - L.C. Smith Man

 

I understand about your post surgery recuperation...what about before that? 

Were you hip deep, advocating for habitat?  Raising money to mow down old growth and re-seed so that it could return to successional forest?

Were you out helping clear stream side brush? 

Were you out there telling lakeside property owners that their perfect green lawns were destroying habit for miles...and decades...downstream? 

Do you actively advocate against golf courses?

Do you support removal of dams?

Were you helping your state buy private property and convert it to public land?

 

I was just wondering if you also raised the flag on Iwo Jima???  ;~)

 

Tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions.

ReplyQuote
Posted : February 15, 2020 7:59 am
Page 2 / 3

Share: