Chokes  

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 Anonymous

1866 chokes were the brainchild of;  Fred Kimble, Sylvester Roper or W.R. Pape, depend who you talk to.

1929 Lyman gunsight company acquired the rights for the Cutts Compensator, originally designed as muzzle brake for the BAR.

1950 Interchangeable chokes sprouted. 

1970 Gunsmith Stan Baker began over boring and threading for Win Choke.

1977 Jess Briley developed thin wall chokes.

The Cutts Compensator IMHO always looked cool on and a model 42.

Poly Choke looked like a chunk of steel on the end of the barrel, although they did work, had a child hood friend who had one.  Truly unbalanced the gun something awful.

Now I wouldn't be caught with out a set of screw in chokes at the Sporting Clays course, although I see some idiots who think it's cool to shoot threads, they gotta have twin brothers, one man can't be that dumb.

So what you think????  

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Posted : March 5, 2019 8:29 pm
Moonshine
(@moonshine)
Noble Member

I think for me the best choice is an O/U with both barrels fix-choked at about .010”.

The gun-maker of choice agrees.

Changing chokes for clays, I learned very quickly after buying my first Browning, a 325, is both fruitless for reasonably-presented targets and a complete time-waster.

My current gun was built with Teagues; means I have to keep a wrench handy and think to check the choke tightness - a pain in the fanny.

This post was modified 7 months ago by Moonshine
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Posted : March 6, 2019 9:52 am
thornton
(@thornton)
Noble Member

I have two shotguns with choke tubes...one was an xtra barrel someone cut and to which they later added tubes and the other shotgun came from the birth canal that way.

I think the "came that way" gun nicely allows for steel, multi-use and days of maybe.

I think the "later added" was a waste but not my call....I somehow cope.

I think that choke tubes themselves are a response to the mentioned opinion of "awful", imagined advantages, real world situations, keeping up with the Jones family and, marketing.

I liked Briley from the oil field thread angle but no longer own a gun so equipped. I had two Polychokes that looked fitting, to me, with balance being nearly the farthest point from my mind. I had a Cutts on a turkey scattergun.....but, I also cut the barrel and camoed it with spray paint myownself.  I do wonder where that gun is now?..been about 45 years ago. I had a Baker Big Bore barrel but with fixed chokes.

Odd how questions regarding subjects such as chokes, et al never cease to be asked and answered after decades or so of Internet savvy.

 

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Posted : March 6, 2019 11:35 am
Lee Sykes liked
Buford
(@bernacki)
Estimable Member

I will repeat the same thing I say when people get worked up about gay marriage:  if you are against gay marriage, don't marry a gay person.

If you don't like screw-in chokes, don't own a gun having them. 

I, on the other hand, don't shoot targets and still find them useful, especially in single barrel guns to allow me to switch between steel and lead (or bismuth), or type of game.  Pheasants over pointers:  open chokes.  Prairie birds:  tighter chokes.  Steel:  open chokes.  Lead:  tighter chokes.  Seems straightforward to me.  I have no use for really tight chokes (like 0.035" constriction) since I'm not a good enough shot to take advantage of them.  That's why I own pointing dogs and I don't hunt waterfowl except for the occasional jump shooting opportunity.

Bruce

 

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Posted : March 6, 2019 12:27 pm
Moonshine
(@moonshine)
Noble Member
Posted by: Buford

I will repeat the same thing I say when people get worked up about gay marriage:  if you are against gay marriage, don't marry a gay person.

If you don't like screw-in chokes, don't own a gun having them. 

I, on the other hand, don't shoot targets and still find them useful, especially in single barrel guns to allow me to switch between steel and lead (or bismuth), or type of game.  Pheasants over pointers:  open chokes.  Prairie birds:  tighter chokes.  Steel:  open chokes.  Lead:  tighter chokes.  Seems straightforward to me.  I have no use for really tight chokes (like 0.035" constriction) since I'm not a good enough shot to take advantage of them.  That's why I own pointing dogs and I don't hunt waterfowl except for the occasional jump shooting opportunity.

Bruce, fair enough, except for my taste and thinking, you are way over-simplistic -

Feelings about gay marriage, or abortion, for a true Christian attempting to follow the Bible, goes way beyond "don't marry a gay person", or don't get pregnant if you don't want a baby. Just read the news stories about the Methodists' General Conference in St. Louis last weekend, if you're not familiar with it, to see what I mean.

I had my first gun with screw-in chokes out of ignorance, and a lack of opportunity to do otherwise. I have since learned.

This sentence of yours does not make sense to me: "I, on the other hand, don't shoot targets and still find them useful, especially in single barrel guns to allow me to switch between steel and lead (or bismuth), or type of game. " But, that's OK, it doesn't have to.

I didn't have to buy my current gun with Teagues, but there were no other used guns our there that fit my parameters, so I compromised. Doesn't mean I made the wrong choice, but it does mean I compromised the best way I could. As an example, it was a double trigger gun - after shooting it a while, I had it re-actioned and re-stocked to be a single trigger gun. I could not handle that and get new barrels and forearm both. Many of us have to compromise, as quite often there is no simple, single solution.

Your shooting interests go far beyond my opportunities, interests, and abilities - so whilst your thinking works for you, but for me, and others I know, it doesn't work worth a damn. To quote you, "that's why I do what I do."

 

 

 

This post was modified 7 months ago by Moonshine
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Posted : March 6, 2019 2:21 pm
Dave B - L.C. Smith Man
(@dave-buehner)
Famed Member

Gentlemen,

   Most of the chokes on my Classic American & German Best double guns are not screw in.  My more modern guns however are, however I very seldom change chokes in them.  I let them set up for bird hunting as my older guns also are.   Learn how to set up and shoot properly, with chokes that get the job done for your individual kind of shooting.  In my case I hunt a lot of Grouse and Woodcock so my classic  guns are mostly choked C/IC and these are the screw in chokes in my modern guns, I use most also.

Dave B - L.C. Smith Man

Gentlemen,

What is going on with our picture posting, I can no longer post pictures, that I have been posting for years.

This sucks!

 

This post was modified 7 months ago 7 times by Dave B - L.C. Smith Man
This post was modified 6 months ago by Dave B - L.C. Smith Man
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Posted : March 6, 2019 3:08 pm
Buford
(@bernacki)
Estimable Member

Moonshine,

Fair enough, that was really my point.  We do what we do because that's what we want or like to do or have to do for whatever reason.  Nothing at all wrong about that.  There is no right or wrong answer. 

Bruce

 

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Posted : March 6, 2019 4:01 pm
thornton
(@thornton)
Noble Member
89739EB6 E5EB 4B5E B3BA BA826252F380

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Posted : March 6, 2019 4:31 pm
Further North
(@geoff-roznak)
Honorable Member
Posted by: Buford

If you don't like screw-in chokes, don't own a gun having them. 

Bruce

 

Solid thinking, IMO.

I tend to lean more towards where Moonshine is: I've little use for screw ins, clays or hunting, but that's me.  I'm kinda backwards on that anyway: My clays gun has regular chokes (IMP/MOD) and a single, non-selective trigger, my hunting gun has Briley Thin Walls, installed by Larry Brown while he had it, IIRC.

Way back in the first iteration of this forum...probably pushing 20 years ago, someone said "Chokes give us inches, we miss by feet." and that's always resonated with me...but chokes also give us confidence, which matters...becuase we often miss by the difference between our ears by over thinking our shooting. 

See bird, shoot bird, don't sweat the small stuff.

I've broken clays to a measured 55 yards with a 16gauge choked .000.  I wouldn't do it all the time, but it wasn't hard. 

Pigeon guns are famous for being tightly choked, no room for error.

Those two extremes sorta bracket the idea in my head and leave me in a place where I'm comfortable that chokes are an individual choice.

"Some people stand tall as great leaders because they elevate all the people around them, some seek to stand tall by pushing all around them down."

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Posted : March 6, 2019 4:56 pm
 Anonymous

"Chokes give us inches, we miss by feet."  Not true at all unless your one piss poor shot...  We shoot a lot of sporting clays, sometimes if I squint and and the sun is right you can see the shot string.  Believe me when we miss by inches.  

Lots of high end Sporting Clays guns come with fixed chokes, usually Improved and Modified ...  32 inch barrels.   As my son like to reming me, if your on your on and full and full will do the trick.  likes to make them disappear, little clouds of smoke. 😀 Then on the other hand breaking rocks at 60 plus with IC is not recommended.   Shooting threads is just plain stupid ...  

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Posted : March 6, 2019 6:56 pm
Moonshine
(@moonshine)
Noble Member

Although I've never seen a shot string, I won't question that you have,...

But, I doubt you saw all the pellets in the string - and with the shape of the string, I'd have to opine that it's pretty difficult to determine which pellet caused a break or how close to an unbroken clay the nearest pellet actually was. How fast were the pellets flying when they neared the clay? Pretty durn.

After all, I'd say most of us have seen unbroken clays with pellet holes right through them in various places. Are those hits or misses?

When all's said and done, it doesn't matter one whit.

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Posted : March 6, 2019 9:43 pm
Further North
(@geoff-roznak)
Honorable Member
Posted by: Junnie

"Chokes give us inches, we miss by feet."  Not true at all unless your one piss poor shot...  We shoot a lot of sporting clays, sometimes if I squint and and the sun is right you can see the shot string.  Believe me when we miss by inches.  

Lots of high end Sporting Clays guns come with fixed chokes, usually Improved and Modified ...  32 inch barrels.   As my son like to reming me, if your on your on and full and full will do the trick.  likes to make them disappear, little clouds of smoke. 😀 Then on the other hand breaking rocks at 60 plus with IC is not recommended.   Shooting threads is just plain stupid ...  

I've seen plenty of shot strings, and have seen few miss by inches.  Every now and then, but not often.

Seems like most often when we miscalculate, we do it by a bunch, not just a little...

See bird, shoot bird, don't sweat the small stuff... 😉 

"Some people stand tall as great leaders because they elevate all the people around them, some seek to stand tall by pushing all around them down."

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Posted : March 6, 2019 11:42 pm
Crazy Horse RVN
(@crazy-horse-rvn)
Estimable Member

This discussion could go on forever without being setteled. I have to laugh at guys on the Sporting Clays Course who rush to change chokes at different stations. This game of Sporting Clays is supposed to imitate hunting conditions and bird presentations. How many times have you changed chokes in your smoke pole while venturing afield? That would be a NEVER for me. Once you start the course you should not be permitted to change chokes. Either you can "Shoot" or you can't!

In fact the Sporting Clays course should be shot without the shooter seein a couple of clay presentations first. Grouse, Pheasants, and Bobwhite don't give you a look at which way they're going to fly so why should you get a look at the clays flight on the Sporting Clays course?

I'm going to a "Walking Grouse Shoot" the end of this month near Lebanon, PA where you start walking and call "Walking." Somewhere along that station a "Trapper" will release the "Bird" at his discretion; it being a total surprise to you the shooter. 

I'll let you know how it played out later.

 

Tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions.

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Posted : March 7, 2019 7:53 am
3 Shots are Better
(@3-shots-are-better)
Famed Member

The most important thing about chokes is to remember that if you have enough of it, you're probably good to go. You can hit a long target with a cylinder choke, but from a percentage stand point, it's not the best way to go.  Anyway, as  an overall perspective, here's what I live by. 

It's  a good idea to keep in mind what you are doing and what you're trying to accomplish. If it's purely hunting, no doubt the best route is to figure what works for you and what you're trying to hit/kill, and stay with it.  And when you visit the sporting clays course, stick with those chokes. My hunting guns are both choked tubed and fixed. I prefer fixed chokes, because it makes for more livelier barrels. I go with choke constrictions  based on the furthest shots I'm going to take, and not the closest. 

If you are shooting clays for competition, that's a different situation all together. For the most part, there's not nearly as much choke changing as there used to be in competitions. There's different  "camps" I see a lot of. One is that the shooter sticks in a pair of  modifieds and pretty much stays with them for the enter layout, only using a skeet choke when faced with very close shots. Famed Shooting Instructor Gil Ash preaches this one.

Another camp sticks in a pair of Light Mods, and uses that for 75 to 80% of the course, but will switch to skeet for close and IM or F for far away. It's known as the "close, moderate, and far" choke selection process. Hall of Fame Shooter Jon Kruger was the first one I heard  advocating this method. It makes a lot of sense.

Then there's some top notch elite guys like Wendell Cherry  and David Radulovich who use fixed chokes of something like IM/F. Which is fine for their skill level, and the fact that in the high end tournaments they frequent, there's mostly longish to very long targets. 

I know of no top end sporting clays shooter who sticks in Cyl/IC and shoots the whole course with it. Heck, you rarely ever see a Cylinder choke where I shoot clays anymore .

The key is to figure out what works for you, and not give what someone else does a second thought. For me, I stick with Light mod or mod for hunting with a single barrel, and LM/Mod for my over and unders. For FITASC and 5 Stand, I put in a pair of either LM or Mods, depending on where and how difficult I expect the targets to be, and then stick with them, never changing. For sporting clays, I'm pretty much on the  "close, moderate, long" program. I shoot mostly LM or Mod, and go to skeet for close and IM/F for far. It's simple, and easy for me to go with when running my pre-shot mental program before stepping into the station.   It works for me, and while I don't pay much attention to what someone else uses/does, I do respect those that figure it out for themselves. 

 

 

 

This post was modified 7 months ago by 3 Shots are Better
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Posted : March 7, 2019 11:05 am
Dave B - L.C. Smith Man
(@dave-buehner)
Famed Member

Gentlemen,

    Chokes are only part of the game when setting up a good pattern to kill birds.  The shells you use in your gun can make a big difference in your gunning, especially wild birds.  When RST and Poly came out with the 2 1/2" SpredR shells they supplied to us Classic American and German Best Gun owners something even better than screw in chokes.  Not only are they nice soft shooting shells, they open a killing pattern to more than the original chokes, on the older double gun.  The shells you use can help determine the killing pattern of your double gun as much as the chokes in your gun.  In fact with the advent of the RST and Poly SpredR shells our American Classic and Euro double guns shoot patterns like they did with the original slow burning shells.  Not much need to alter permeant chokes if you choose the right shells to hunt with today.  IMO the correct shells in your gun are just as important as screw in chokes.

Dave B - L.C. Smith Man

This post was modified 6 months ago by Dave B - L.C. Smith Man
This post was modified 1 week ago by Dave B - L.C. Smith Man
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Posted : March 27, 2019 12:46 pm
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